This is a slightly older video (well, two months old) that I’ve had on the backburner for a while, and I figured I’d discuss it today because I’m just in that kind of mood… It’s a video that Sasha Grey did for Equal Pay day, which is, on the surface, a very good idea. It’s based on the idea that women often make significantly less than men doing the same work. People have different rationalizations for why this is the case, but the fact of the matter is that this continues to be an issue, both in North America and throughout the world. In a way, it’s a very good thing that Sasha lent her voice to this issue, but watch the full video and I think you’ll get quite a different picture by the end. No, go ahead. I can wait. ;)
Done? What did you think about the message at the end? It seemed to pretty much devalue everything that Sasha has done with her porn career, doesn’t it? ”Porn is about the only way to make more than a man. Find a better alternative on equalpayday.be.” Wow. Now, I realize that there’s more than one way to read this statement, and they may in fact have been referring to the fact that there is a better general alternative to the current pay scale issues, but come on. They are clearly thriving on this ambiguous statement, especially considering the stark tone of the film and her voice, and her own decision to leave the porn industry.
Say what you will about Sasha’s career, but she seems to have done everything in her own way with her own interests in mind. She even indicates this in the video… So why the need to create some sort of pornographic martyr character in the name of sparking discussion? Well, I guess because it sparks discussion… In the name of discussion, what do you think about this issue in general, and what do you think about the fact that it’s framed around the (perceived negative) porn industry?
I think mainstream porn sells as well as it does BECAUSE it’s seen as a ‘bad’ option. Most porn is male dominant as the viewers want to feel they would be in control of it. The reality of the situation ruins the fantasy of it and would ruin the mass appeal. Consider your situation for instance – porn about a woman who does things to a passive man? Niche market. Femdom? Niche market. Generic woman being bent over and ‘done’? Mainstream. It’s rare that porn reflects life. That’s part of why porn performers are just that – performers.
The closing tag line of this “PDA” is an insult to all working women, particularly those with high paying careers earned by virtue of their talent and hard work. Do employees of child care centers (99% female) make less that doctors? Yes. Are female doctors compensated at a lower rate than their male colleagues? No. Stating that porn one of the few ways women can out earn men is one of the most sexist comments I’ve ever heard.
Sasha, if you love your career and make a boatload of cash doing it, then more power to you.
But shame on you for promoting this message to women, like my own daughters will soon be.
“Are female doctors compensated at a lower rate than their male colleagues? No.” [citation needed]
Citation needed? You want footnotes for a blog post? My statement holds true for the U.S. Feel free to research the topic if you wish.
Of course it is needed! If you blatantly state something as fact that appears to just be an opinion and you want to convince us otherwise, lets see the source of your “fact.” I believe, if you do some serious research, that you will find that there exists, in most countries, in a wide range of careers, a significant disparity in wages between men and women doing the same work. For the sake of your daughters, help do something about it.
Sadly that seems to be the case, but I think it was a well-meaning confusion.
It seems like there is a fairly substantial wage discrepancy, even with doctors in the US, sadly.
I clearly did not do the proper research before making my statement regarding the earnings of female doctors. I have been duly corrected. Regardless of this error, my comments are supportive of working women. Female doctors earn more than male fire fighters. Woman can out earn men by pursuing professions other than porn. I support equal pay for equal work and nothing in my comments implies otherwise.
That’s true, but the fact is that it should be doctor to doctor, fire fighter to fire fighter and such.
Just a quick Google search picked up this article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jennagoudreau/2011/04/28/female-doctors-face-a-2-3-million-wage-gap/ Seems like even doctors have a wage gap.
“Leaders of AMWA argue that medical organizations believe they can “get women for less” and market their family-friendly work arrangements. AMWA fears that women may be giving too much away in an unfair trade-off, and says that when women do negotiate for higher salaries, they are often viewed as “demanding.” Meanwhile, despite women now comprising one-third of all practicing physicians, just 12% of medical school deans and chairs are female.” Wow.
Del, I am single father of three daughters and I have taught my girls this: You were born equal and let not man deny you your birth right. That is what I have done to help them. I can’t change the wage inequalities of the world but I can raise my daughters to be confident women and that is something no new law, policy or Sasha Gray “PDA” can do.
p.s. Unless your are family or a close friend, don’t presume to tell a parent what they ought to do for the sake of their own children.
You sound like a great dad.
While I’m not sure about the medical profession, there are actually a lot of jobs in the corporate sector, for example, with fairly dependable wage gaps, from what I gather.
Wow, there’s a lot of issues with this video (or so it seems to me). Going in simple chronological order through the film, Gray says she “left” [dropped out?] of high-school and then became [briefly] a secretary, a teacher, a waitress, and a nurse. Do two of these careers (teaching and nursing) seem suspiciously lucky for someone with no advanced degrees or training? I’m a man with a master’s degree in writing, and the only job I’ve been able to get in this economy for the last few years is waiting tables. But apparently Gray was able to just step into fortuitous opportunities?
She also said that she earned more as a nurse than the doctors around her did. So… was that a problem? It doesn’t sound like a problem. She got “respect” and “a lot of money,” but apparently she didn’t “choose” these honors, because she gave them up in favor of her porn career… which I guess she loved [and which also earned her fame, honors, and a lot of money], until she decided to give it up [at age 21!!] and pursue mainstream acting and music.
Huh.
And now, after she earned more than doctors [a male-dominated field] while being a nurse [a female-dominated field], and then became world-famous doing something she truly loved [porn], she puts out a message saying that porn is the only way women can earn more than men, thus effectively linking it to prostitution (the original negative career opportunity for women). So this video basically damns “above-the-table” jobs like teaching and nursing (because she found them unfulfilling) as well as porn (because it… degrades women?).
I agree 100% with the stats that show women are earning less than men in equal/comparable jobs. I agree 100% that women deserve equal wages. There’s still a lot of progress that needs to be made in the world. But– unless this video edited her words out-of-context– then Ms. Gray seems like far too fickle and contradictory a representative to speak for this cause.
(In contrast, there’s Camille: a mature, adult woman in control of her life, doing what she loves with a partner she loves, earning a comfortable living and running a business, with the respect of her friends, fans, and industry colleagues, and also pushing the envelope every day as she fights for equal rights, equal wages, equal respect, and a superior form of pornography that celebrates and empowers women. Now THAT is inspirational!)
P.P.S.– I apologize for misspelling Ms. Grey’s name in that first post… no disrespect intended; I’m just naturally inclined to the “a” spelling.
Thanks for that, Cal.
I think Sasha was implying that her working in those fields was her playing characters in porn films, so being a sexy nurse, a sexy secretary, etc… It was a pretty vague way of getting at it, though. So, she was actually saying that she was earning more playing a nurse in a porn film than the men playing doctors in the porn film. I guess essentially she’s saying that part of the logic of choosing a career in porn is that it’s one of the only industries where earning comparable salaries or exceeding male salaries is possible…
Oh. I guess I missed the sarcasm– or/and I missed her videos, so didn’t realize she had done a lot of role playing. Oops.
All right, so the point about earning more as a pornstar than as an actual nurse or secretary is perhaps valid. But she still seems to deprecate a career that she seemed to enjoy at the time. And if her mainstream acting career succeeds, she’ll be earning more than most small nations. But whatever; the point isn’t to argue about Sasha’s career– it’s about equality for everyone, whatever that requires.
I totally agree.
I took her statement about being a secretary, a teacher, a waitress and a nurse to be a list of the roles she played in porn movies, where she made more than the guy playing the boss, the principal, the cook, and the doctor. That’s where she says she got “respect” and a lot of money. The entire video is a summary of her porn career, which started immediately after she turned 18.
At least that’s how I take it. After all, there’s no way she could have been hired as a nurse out of high school with no training.
Exactly, Jaybo. You had the right instinct, I believe. That’s how I took it.
The message of this video is hopelessly muddled. Ms. Grey seems more interested in promoting herself as a sexual adventurer than supporting the cause of wage equality.
It’s a very confusing message. I’m glad I’m not the only one left scratching my head at this one.
sasha grey = self promoter par excellance .
sasha grey = 21 yr old kid, taketh her ” wisdoms ” as such.
Those are some very wise and true words, Butters.
indeed. well put. one can never get the right answer when promotion and self-promotion is involved. The message is clearly oriented in one direction and not taking all the facts. Again a risk with short message …. A nice debate. I having read all comments above, it is indeed a debate.
One point here though, mostly regarding surgeon and doctors, in places like Quebec they all get the same wages. It is based on experience, domain, geolocation and such and based by the govt who pays them. BUT, keep in mind that a women can always loose some ‘points’ or rather opportunities caused by leave of absence for pregnancy.
Otherwise, I still dont understand why with equal job, equal competency a women would get less.
By the way, I hate when people talk about equal pay and compare 2 totally different fields.
At any rate, a complex subject…
It definitely is complex. Quebec seems relatively progressive comparatively, but elsewhere in Canada and especially in the States, it seems to be very different.
Hi Camille,
This may be a myth and I’d be interested in your insights but is it true that women of different ethnicities get paid differently in mainstream porn? I remember reading that black, hispanic and asian women get paid significantly less than white women in the US market.
I’m not deeply in that side of the industry, but from what I’ve heard, it’s very much the case.
In terms of wages for women, I believe porn is the most racist industry in America.
[Disclaimer: I have no research or data to support this assertion]
However, inspired by Freakonomics, I have come up with this hypothesis.
This race-based wage discrimination against women is so pervasive that it could be easily demonstrated by correlating a single variable: the color of woman’s eyes
If you crunched the numbers, I’m certain you would get the following result:
On average, women with brown eyes earn significantly less money than women with blue or light colored eyes.
Blue eyes are a very reliable indicator of ethnicity. Blue eyes = White woman.
If you factored in skin color, the inequity in wages would become even more pronounced. You would find a strong correlation between the darkness of a woman’s complexion and a decease in her compensation.
My hunch is that the wage gap in porn between white women at the top and black women at the bottom is disturbingly large.
Sasha may be right that porn is one of the few careers were women can out earn men. But sadly, the porn industry is also one of America’s last bastions of raw racism against women.
Interesting… But doesn’t Sasha have brown eyes?
Touche Camille! My key qualifier is “on average.” I still think that a disproportionate number of the top female wage earners in porn would have blue eyes. Maybe I should apply for a research grant.
I look forward to reading your findings.
Camille, I actually think we are on the same page regarding wage equality for women. In far too many professions, women get a raw deal. The message of Sasha’s PDA was such a jumbled mess that my own counter argument ended up being nearly as inarticulate. The fact that the video ticked me off didn’t help either. Good cause, bad PDA and Sasha was just being Sasha and that’s no knock against her.
I think so too. You weren’t inarticulate. It was just a confusing video… I think it’s interesting how people interpreted.
Did you notice at around 0:14 seconds that while she talks in the message about leaving the industry we see in the background a porn being shot
Ok forget my comment. It’s actually the entire film that is made this way. My bad !! lol
It’s hard to catch initially.
That part I definitely enjoyed!
I’m tired of hearing that porn is degrading to women. There are a thousand different genres within porn. Videos where women are submissive. Videos where men are submissive. No one is forced to perform. I wish they’d stop equating it to sexual slavery. Sasha did porn because she enjoyed it. Nothing more. Nothing less. I am definitely in favor of eliminating the wage gap, but not sure what porn has to do with the issue. Porn pays well (especially if you’re a studio star). It’s an aberration. I’d get naked and have sex on camera in a heartbeat if I thought people would pay me for it. The reality is that I’d just end up causing seizures and all the dogs would howl. Again. Equal pay is a non-issue. Of COURSE women should make the same (and probably do not). I just don’t get what seems like a damning statement against the porn industry.
I know how you feel, Buddha. I’m sure there are some cases of exploitation, but the transparency of social media makes it very easy to be able to spot and support performers and companies with happy, enthusiastic consent. I’ve always thought that this kind of porn panic was on par with someone saying that all music is scary because they’ve heard death metal.
Like in any other walk of life, and business, and job, there are pluses and minuses in the porn industry. Honestly, I still have to find a field with no issues or no discrepancies, injustices, etc. This is why experience tells us to dig for the beautiful, to grab the diamonds from the dirt — because diamonds you will find anywhere, including in porn.
And you’re such a diamond, I can tell. Just sit and think about it: how many blowjob sites do attract women and couples?; how many female performers do inspire wives and girlfriends to feel good and cozy about giving blowjobs?
Well, I don’t know how many, but yours is at the top of my list for sure. You made me realize that porn ca be romantic, after all.
You’re absolutely right. No job is perfect (except maybe beer tester) but doing something special and unique will help you to enjoy it all the more. (And, of course, I appreciate the compliments.)
My preliminary research of racial wage discrimination in the U.S. porn industry
Relevant Statistics
-Racial profile of U.S.*
White: 64%
Hispanic: 16%
Black: 13%
Asian: 5%
*Rounded up, excluding 2% of “Other.”
-Proportion of U.S. population with blue eyes: 1/6th (16.6%)
-Profile of the fifteen highest earning female porn stars*
6 of 15 have blue eyes = 40%.
13 of 15 are “White” = 86%
2 of 15 are “Asian” = 14%
0 of 15 are “Hispanic” or “Black” = 0%
40% of top female porn stars have blue eyes but only 16.6% of U.S. pop. share this trait
86% are “White” compared to 64% of U.S. pop.
14% are “Asian” compared to 5% of US pop.
None are “Hispanic” or “Black” compared to 16% and 13% respectively of US pop.
Conclusions:
If we exclude “Asians” due to their small sample size (.i.e. 2), we find that blue-eyed women are the most over-represented group among the top 15 porn stars in relation to the general U.S. population. Although “Hispanics” and “Blacks” represent a combined 29% of the U.S. population, no woman from either group ranks among the top porn stars. Thus within the U.S. porn industry, there is a significant wage bias in favor of “White” women, particularly those with blue eyes.
*”The 20 Richest Porn Stars” http://www.celebritynetworth.com/articles/entertainment-articles/20-richest-porn-stars/
I excluded the five males on the list for the purposes of this study.
Camille, can I use you as a reference on my grant proposal?
Wow, that’s some indepth research for my little old blog!
And of course. I’ll sign off on that. I’m pleased people associate my blog with (fake) academia.
Merci pour votre soutien, professeur Crimson.
After your retire rich and famous, you could found The Camille Crimson Institute of Advanced Sexual Studies (Excusez-moi…Le Camille Crimson Institut des Hautes Etudes Sexuelles).
It only took me an hour or so to find the stats and crunch the numbers…great fun actually.
Camille, you do post some very thought-provoking topics here. Keep ‘em coming.
I like your ideas to help me diversify my portfolio.
Two Points to Ponder about the video.
Two Points to Ponder about the video.
1) Sasha never “says” anything about the wage gap. She looks like she was paid to walk around a set and talk about her career and how much money she has made. Nothing more.
2) She is a 21 year old porn star wanting to move into mainstream movies. She needs a cause. Here is a video she can now point to and say “look, I care about something” All good actors and actresses have some cause they promote in order to look like they care about the world.
Opps, wrong word… she says NOTHING about the wage gap in the video… My Bad…
No, you were right the first time. She never says anything. Never saying nothing is a double negative, which, when you think about it, means she says lots!
We’re always learning here. At least I know I am.
Very good point… It just all seems odd to me, but I’m glad it sparked such a vibrant discussion here!
See? As Mr Fluffer pointed out: “All good actors and actresses have some cause they promote in order to look like they care about the world.”
This is like the dirt of politics — they pretend and lie to you for your votes, or money, or trust, etc.
Being honest to yourself, and to others, is what makes the real value, regardless if we’re talking porn or politics.
I completely agree, Doris.
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