Down the Tubes
3 Nov
Okay, I’ve been big on the questions over the last few days and you have all certainly been great at answering them, so I’ve got another one for you today… Well, actually I have a few of them:
What do you honestly think of tube sites? So you use them? If so, which ones? What do you think are the benefits/draw-backs of how it is effecting the view of porn? What do you know about its effect on the porn industry?
For the sake of fairness, I’ll answer the questions that are relevant to me:
I have a mixed feeling on tube sites. I do business with them for a few reasons. First, it’s a necessity in porn if you want to get ahead. Second, the people I’ve met who work for the tubes are really nice people who want to help you share your content. Third, it is good publicity and a good way to engage with people… But the problem is that it’s creating a culture where everyone expects everything for free and they see no problem ripping videos from a site and uploading it without consent.
It’s also tough because when you upload one, or five, or ten or even thirty videos, a lot of people just scream for more and ask why you aren’t posting every update you have for free… Because of a mix of the stigma of porn and the fact that most people don’t understand what it takes to code a website, create a quality video and run a business, people think porn isn’t a real job that requires money to survive, so this “everything for free” mentality enables them to feel entitled to everything… for free.
This is definitely not a dig at people who can’t afford to pay for a membership. Far from it. Times are hard, it’s not possible for everyone. I completely respect that. This is the people who LOL when I suggest that if they would like to see my latest update, that it’s available for viewing on my site. You know the types.
So, what do I feel is a beneficial repercussion for tube porn? More available and promoted porn means that people are seeing porn as more of a normal part of life. The more people are casual porn users, the less of a big deal porn, and ultimately sex, will be in the context of our moralistic society. Having porn and sex present in our online life is an important way to get legitimacy.
If we could find a way to crack down on the piracy and make it feel more like “these are free samples, like a trailer for a movie or a mini-quiche in the frozen food aisle” and less of an expectation that porn is free and disposable and unlimited, people would have more respect for porn and would pick and choose their favourite sites/videos based on their tastes and then subscribe or buy the video to see the full version…
So, what do you think?
It’s a necessary evil. The video hooks the person to find out more about you. Your real work is on twitter and this blog. You’ve really created a community that isn’t just about porn. Yes the porn is there and it’s fun and erotic for everybody. Since you’re such a likable person and you really do communicate with a lot of your fans it’s what sets you apart from a lot of the “normal” porn folks.
-@Reverend_Bob_W
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Camille Reply:
November 4th, 2011 at 4:40 pm
That’s really sweet of you to say. I hope that people feel like that.
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There are two things I liked about tube sites when I used to watch them more-finding porn stars like you and watching people who were normal and put up their videos. There are so many videos on the tubes that seem like the people are trying to put on a show and not as if they recorded themselves and just wanted others to see. Often times the moaning is fake and girls are getting gagged and being called extremely bad names and it doesn’t make the videos pleasant to watch.
And I will also say that I agree with you about people uploading videos they have no right to upload like yours. Times are hard and it is hard to pay for things that you want, however to pay for a site and then to see videos in this case that you are paying for online for free seems like a rip off. I agree that it would be nice if the only thing on the sites were your trailers and then those who paid got to see the entire video. And it’s unfair to you to work hard and have people misusing your hard work and you not getting paid for it. I could go on about this, but I probably made my point.
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Camille Reply:
November 4th, 2011 at 4:50 pm
I like the more amateur ones, but it is really tough to deal with the stolen content, as you say. I completely agree.
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Yep, I agree with Camille and JJ (big surprise!). The tubes should be only for amateurs uploading videos they themselves have made (and don’t ever expect to be paid for making) or for professionals running businesses who want to share teasers and trailers to attract new members to their official sites. I know the thought of policing the tubes for illegal down/uploads is a monster, but surely there could be some tech code “lock” so that for-profit videos couldn’t be illegally downloaded (or, at least, couldn’t be re-uploaded again for free).
I do enjoy the tube sites for the fact that anyone can post anything, and so we not only see a wider spectrum of extremes, but also a lot of variety within the “norms.” Wanna see an average blowjob? There’s a billion. Wanna see a terrible blowjob? There’s a billion of those too. Wanna see a brilliant blowjob? There are (or _should_ be) a precious few TAOB clips.
I see the tubes kind of like those incredible Spencer Tunick photos of hundreds or thousands of naked people– the beauty lies primarily in the sheer scale, scope, and diversity of it all. Sadly, the illegal actions on the tubes just spoils the wonder and opportunity.
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Camille Reply:
November 4th, 2011 at 4:54 pm
I wish code locking like that existed… Right now, tubes have just made porn very every man for himself. And that ends up not great. They’re definitely taking steps to have more order, but it’s a long uphill battle to undo what’s been done.
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Having talked to a couple of people in the adult content business in the course of my day job, my take is that tube sites have devalued adult content even for big-name companies like Private, let alone DIY sites like yrs. There’s always takedown-notice policies, but while YouTube is fairly good at that, I don’t know about porn-tube sites, and in any event, that’s often a case of Whackamole.
At the same time, it’s not clear how many people who use tube sites exclusively to get online porn would be paying customers anyway, so it’s hard to say how much of a difference it would make if they never existed. Which brings us to the fact that any given person’s online porn budget has a ceiling, and you can only subscribe to so many sites before you have to start making choices.
I’ve been told what the adult industry needs is a micropayment model a’la iTunes. There will always be pirates, and there will always be people who expect porn (and everything else on the web) to be free, but there are also a lot of people who’d prefer a cheap pay-as-you-go option to a monthly/yearly subscription. I don’t know how realistic that is, but I think there’s something to it.
On a personal note, I’m not crazy about tube sites primarily because it’s too hard to find exactly what I want at the quality level I expect.
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Camille Reply:
November 4th, 2011 at 4:57 pm
I agree on every point, John. The micropayment is something that is being tried, but it’s hard to get payment processors to work with that kind of model, since it’s more involved and it’s harder to set up with adult content.
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If you think about this as supply and demand economics, it really has negative implications for those who produce porn for profit. There is essentially an unlimited supply of free porn on tube sites now (and torrents and file sharing sites). While the consumption of porn is probably at an all-time high, most companies are seeing a decline in paying customers.
My trailers on Xtube have more than 15 million views and I would guess that less than 100 of those converted into sales – that’s a 1/150,000 conversion ratio! Back in the day, one could expect a 1/100 conversion ratio from people from just looking at your box art. It’s harder to make money now than ever before. What lots of consumers don’t understand that if there is no incentive for the people (who you love watching) to make porn, they’ll stop making it.
Tube sites get their content for free. They have atrocious bandwidth costs and in the end, have a fairly thin profit margin. It’s cool that amateurs can share their stuff, but most tube sites do not do a good job keeping pirated content out – DMCA gives them no real incentive to prevent illegal uploads – only to remove it quickly after it has been reported. So porn producers need to compete with free versions of their own content – content they paid to produce! We knew we’d have to compete with other producers, but now we’re competing against free versions of our own content!
I primarily use xtube because I get a good deal of feedback from the community their which helps me market my stuff to the ever decreasing number of people who are still willing to pay for quality porn. One can become famous on tube sites, but fame does not equal wealth (now more than ever). Amateurs need to consider that they may have to deal with the same type of obsessed fans Hollywood celebrities have to deal with on a dishwasher’s budget. Promoting stuff on tube sites has limits and can cause problems for people.
Essentially, I think it would be cool if tube sites went to more effort to prevent illegal uploads – requiring people to provide their copyright registration number or application and requiring valid real world contact information and identification; but they do not. I know that Xtube and Pornotube do a good job preventing pirated content, but most tube sites have been very poor with this and that’s a big problem for people in the business of producing porn for profit.
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Camille Reply:
November 4th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
You are so right, John. If people would be more on board for being proactive about preventing illegal content, not just slowly taking something down if specifically asked, it woul dmake our jobs so much easier.
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If it wasnt for Tube sites I never would of come to know about you.
That said, I used to think it slightly tacky that some stars of the adult industry now pimp their amazon wish list on their social media. Upon reflection though it makes sense, it is a way for people like me to compensate them for the “free” tube porn of theirs that has provided me pleasure.
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Camille Reply:
November 4th, 2011 at 5:01 pm
It may seem tacky, but it’s very true, especially for people who create their own porn. It’s expensive to constantly have new looks/toys/equipment and I can see why people rely on it, considering how many people consider themselves fans without ever considering paying for a video or subscription.
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I agree with you and JJ.
This is actually my first time coming to your site after seeing you many times on youporn and I intend to join as soon as I’m done writing this post so I guess that in this case it worked. It wasn’t until I actively started looking up your work on youporn and tubegalore that I realized how valuable it was to me.
I think that tube sites are good for browsing through hundreds of thousands of different videos by different people quickly. Also, my mood is always changing. Sometimes I enjoy slow sensual stuff like yours. Sometimes I enjoy really crazy hardcore stuff. As noted by many people above, I also very much enjoy homemade stuff done with “real girls” instead of the ridiculous stuff produced by many mainstream studios.
Tube sites allow me to explore in any direction to the limit of my imagination (arousal) and find the content quickly so that I can get on with my day. Girls are nice but to be honest, I’ve not always the time to make that happen. Sometimes I have been working for 16 hours straight and am laying in bed needing to get it out so I find a tube site, browse till I am content and then pass out. If I had memberships to 20 different sites that each catered to one of my moods I would be flat broke and my family would be putting me in a porn addiction program.
Tube sites allow me to find something each day that gets me through until I find something that I really enjoy which I will then sign up for.
IMO, its unfortunate that tube sites took over before something like Netflix/Hulu/Rhapsody/Spotify for the adult industry could be born. Musicians and traditional actors still make plenty of money if they have a contract with the publishing company to get a cut from the service provider every time a user plays some of their work.
As it is, I doubt very much that users will ever accept a world without free porn which is too bad. Still, if anyone can think of a way to do what the tube sites do and charge for it I’d be happy to invest!
Good work. I’m a big fan.
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Camille Reply:
November 4th, 2011 at 5:03 pm
That is awesome that it worked! I’m happy to know that my videos have value!
And I completely agree with you. The fact is that online piracy is a huge threat to porn, cinema, tv and music, but porn is considered less legitimate, so it’s less likely to be cracked down on… It’s a shame.
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I think they are adversely affecting production of content from the high end companies like Wicked Pictures and Digital Playground.
I think Operation Snow Stormy will not be getting made because of tube sites.
Which is a shame.
You may feel you need to use such sites, especially when starting out in adult entertainment, but the big name stars are not on tube sites and they often tweet how bad they are for business and the companies that have them as Contract Girls.
So I respect their wishes, don’t use tubes and buy DVDs so classy porn can continue to be made.
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Camille Reply:
November 4th, 2011 at 5:04 pm
I think that’s a really good thing for you to believe and do. I wish it was more possible for those of us who are in the “online” business.
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Alan Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 8:41 am
Rest assured if you did produce a DVD of a collection of your scenes, I would be first in line to buy it.
I like my erotica to be sensual. And if one word describes your blowjobs, it most assuredly has to be that one.
And let’s add “languid” too.
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Camille Reply:
November 7th, 2011 at 6:10 pm
I’m producing a DVD as we speak, actually.
Are there any of these tube sites that don’t feature violent and degrading ads? That’s my problem with them. I go to see what’s new and the next thing I know, I’m watching an ad for a pseudo-rape porn site. Total turn off for me.
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Camille Reply:
November 4th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
Agreed. Or it’s The Simpsons having sex… I have no clue why those ads are everywhere on tubes.
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Redact That Reply:
November 4th, 2011 at 7:02 pm
The ones that really annoy and disgust me are the ads for 3D monster porn animations – raping a woman with a 3 foot penis attached to an aggressive, slobbering creature does not make it okay just because it’s an animation, and I don’t buy the argument that it’s okay because there’s no ‘real victim’. Seriously, who are these idiots?
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Camille Reply:
November 7th, 2011 at 6:06 pm
I completely agree. They’re just nauseating.
I know it’s a common complaint amongst those “in the business” that people d/l for free and won’t pay for sites, but I’m willing to bet there isn’t anyone who hasn’t d/l music without payment going to the artists.
Everything shouldn’t be free, but because of the net most people feel entitled to getting things from creative people without payment.
Not good for anyone in the long run, but who considers the long run anymore.
Dave O.
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Camille Reply:
November 4th, 2011 at 5:07 pm
That’s exactly it. I’m one of those people who actually uses iTunes to buy my music, but I feel like I’m in the small majority as someone who doesn’t also torrent or download.
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MonkeyBlues Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 2:52 am
I have never stolen music, movies or a tv show. Nor have I ever used a torrent to break copyright law.
I know I have watched stolen porn, I blame the tube sites, BUT if I watch a scene more than once I make an effort to pay them.
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Camille Reply:
November 7th, 2011 at 6:08 pm
That’s a great way to be. I feel like obviously we can’t pay for every single bit of porn we consume, but making an effort to support the companies/people you feel deserve it is a very important thing.
Alan Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 8:43 am
I’ve never downloaded a song without paying for it. I buy CDs. I rip my own MP3s.
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Camille Reply:
November 7th, 2011 at 6:11 pm
That’s a great way to do it!
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Camille,
I’m surprised how much you give away for free, considering the quality of your productions and how you are basically the Redtube goddess of porn sandwiched in with a bunch of throat fucking garbage. Is it possible for you to put up a new video and then take it down again, like hulu does? Everyone could see your video once for free, and then visit your site and pay for multiple viewings. Viewers have a hard time justifying paying at your site when they know you have dozens of free videos on Redtube. If you took them down and teased them (of course I mean us) with your latest one only, I would feel compelled to open my wallet…
P.S. I never thought I’d be giving a porn star business advice. Best of luck with your continued success, in whatever business model you choose.
P.P.S. How about speaking a little French in one of your videos? We Americans find it very exotic and love that sort of thing.
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Camille Reply:
November 4th, 2011 at 5:46 pm
It’s hard that so much has been given away. I wish we could put up and take things down, but tube sites really don’t like that and they’d stop featuring the site if we were too complicated as contributors. It’s a rough business, unfortunately. And I do have some whispered French in some of my videos.
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The odd thing is that for me, most of the times I find the trailers to be much more appealing and satisfying than the actual porn. The last time I bought a porn film (from Elegant Angel), the trailer was fucking hot and did everything I wanted. The movie itself felt tedious and overblown and… meh. Good moments, great scenes but I didn’t want to see every damn thing.
So the Tubes work for me because, honestly, I don’t want that much. Something about the acting and the theatricality is a huge turn-off for me. My girlfriend talking dirty to me is hot. Hearing the latest Hot Young Thing talking dirty to Hunk of the Moment is faintly ridiculous and I lose my interest and my arousal in the same moment.
Ten minutes of a static shot in someone’s bedroom as a couple (or group) is fucking wildly? Three minute quicky blowjob in a dressing room? Sign me up and I’ll come back for more.
Which is why y’all will be getting a bit of cash from me shortly.
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Camille Reply:
November 4th, 2011 at 5:47 pm
I’m glad that my videos can be a better mix of trailer and long feature porn without much artistry. That’s really wonderful to hear, honestly.
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If these sites were just to give you a taste of what you can get by joining up, I would endorse them. The problem is many viewers like me, get excited by what we see, and impulsively buy a subscription without really looking at what is being offered.
The other frighting aspect of these tube sites is that they can locate me and attempt to sell me fuck buddies. They interrupt my viewing.
Personally, I have added a lot of good material to my collection via these sites, many times the sites are down but the material is still out there.
I think in your case, the advertising does pay.
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Camille Reply:
November 7th, 2011 at 6:11 pm
I’m glad to know that, despite the issues with tubes, some of the quality stuff does find its way to the top.
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